A Session of al-Ridha (AS) with Sulayman al-Marwazi, the Theologian of Khurasan, in‬‬ the Presece of al-Ma`mun concerning the Subject of Divine Unity.

“My cousin `Ali ibn Musa al-Rida (AS) has come here from Hejaz. He likes theology and theologians. Thus, it would not be any trouble if you came on the Day of Tarwiyah to have a debate with him.” Sulayman said: “O Commander of the Faithful! I dislike questioning him in your session and among a group of Hashimites. The people will regard him as incapable when he debates with me on theology. Incapabilities are not permissible for him.” Al-Ma`mun said: “I have invited you because of my recognition of your strength. I have no intentions except for you t silence him in an argument.” Sulayman said: “O Commander of the Faithful! I will do it for you. Just bring us together, sit down, and watch.” Then al-Ma`mun sent someone after al-Rida (AS) and said: “A man from Marw who has no equal in Khurasan in theology has come, and asked for you to come to us. Come here if you do not mind.” The Imam (AS) made ablution and told us to go ahead. `Imran the Sabian was with us. We went until we arrived at al-Ma`mun’s court. Yasir and Khalid took me by the hand, and led me in to al-Mamun. When I greeted him, he asked, “Where is my brother Abu alHasan? May Allah keep him alive!” I said: “When we were coming he was putting on his clothes. He ordered us to go ahead.” Then I added, “O Commander of the Faithful! Your servant `Imran is also with me. He is right outside.” He asked, “Who is `Imran?” I answered, “He is the Sabian who became a Muslim because of you.” He said: “Let him in.” Then `Imran came in. Al-Ma`mun welcomed him, and then told him, “O Imran! You joined the Hashimites before your death!” `Imran said: “O Commander of the Faithful! Praise be to Allah who honored me by you.” Al-Ma`mun said: “O `Imran! This is Sulayman al-Marwazi, who is the theologian from Khurasan.” `Imran said: “O Commander of the Faithful! He thinks that he is the only one in Khurasan versed in theoretical principles, and he refutes appearance [bada`].” Al-Ma`mun said: “Why do you not debate with him?” `Imran said: “This depends on him.” Then al-Rida (AS) came in and asked, “What were you discussing?” `Imran said: “O son of the Prophet of Allah! This is Sulayman al-Marwazi.” Sulayman said to `Imran. “Will you be pleased with Abu al-Hasan and what he says about appearance.” `Imran said: “Yes. I will, if he presents argument like those I can present when I debate with other theologians like myself.” Al-Ma`mun said: “O Abu al-Hasan! What is your opinion regarding what they argue about?” The Imam (AS) said: O Sulayman! How could you not believe in appearance while Allah, the Mighty and High, said: But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing? And the Mighty and High said: It is He who originates the creation, then He causes it to recur again, and says: Originator of the heavens and the earth. Moreover, the Mighty and High said: He began the creation of man from clay. Also the mighty and High says: And others are mate to await Allah’s Command, whether He will chastise them, or turn in mercy to them. And the Mighty and High says: None ages, nor any diminishes from one’s life except what is in a Book. Sulayman asked, “Has anything been narrated to you on this issue from your forefathers?” The Imam (AS) said: Yes. It has been narrated on the authority of Abu `Abd Allah al-Sadiq (AS) who said: Verily, Allah, the Mighty and High, possesses two types of knowledge: a Guarded or Hidden Knowledge, which no one knows but He. Appearance is rooted in that knowledge. And He possesses a second type of knowledge which he has taught to His Angels (AS) and his Messengers (AS), and which the learned members of the Household of the Prophet (AS) also know. Sulayman said: “I would like you to present this from the Book of Allah, the mighty and High.” The Imam (AS) said: That is the Word of Allah, the Mighty and High to His Prophet (SA0: So turn you back upon them for you are not to be blamed. Allah first intended to destroy them, then it appeared for Allah so He said: And remind them, for verily reminding avails the believers. Sulayman said: “May I be your ransom! Tell me more.” Then al-Rida (AS) said: My father (AS) informed me on the authority of his forefathers (AS) that the Messenger of Allah (SA) said: Verily, Allah, the Mighty and High, revealed to one of His Prophets to let one of the kings know that I will take away his life at such and such a time. The Prophet went to see the King and told him that. Then the King pleaded to Allah, while he was on his until he fell off of it. He said: “O Lord! Postpone m demise until I see my son grow up to undertake my affairs.” Then Allah, the Mighty and High, revealed to that Prophet, “Go to that king and inform him that I have decided to postpone his death. I have added fifteen years to his life.” The Prophet said: “O Lord! You know very well that I have never lied.” Then Allah, the Mighty and High, revealed to him, “Verily, you are a servant ordained. Therefore, announce this to him. Allah is never questioned about what He does.” Then the Imam (AS) turned towards Sulayman and said: “I think you have the same opinion as the Jews in this regard.” Sulayman said: “I seek refuge in Allah from such a thing. What have the Jews said?” The Imam (AS) said: The Jews say, `God’s hand is tied up. They mean that Allah has finished working, is sitting back, and does not create anything else. However, Allah, the Mighty and High, has given them the following answer: Be their hands tied up, and be they cursed for what they say. I have also heard a group of people asking my father Musa ibn Ja`far (AS) about appearance, so he said: “What do the people refute from the appearance, while Allah mighty delay the affairs of some people for a decision regarding them?” Sulayman asked, “can you tell me for what has the following verse been revealed? Verily, We have revealed this (Qur’an) in the Night of Power. The Imam (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Allah, the Mighty and High, decides the destiny for that year including life or death, good or evil, and sustenance on the Night of Power. Whatever He destines on that night comes to be.” Sulayman said: “Now I understand. May I be your ransom! Please tell me more.” The Imam (AS) said: O Sulayman! Some of the affairs are up to Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, and what He wills. He can expedite what He wills, and delay what He wills. O Sulayman, `Ali (AS) used to say, “Knowledge is of two types: Knowledge which Allah has taught His Angels and His Messengers, and knowledge which He has hidden, and of which none of His Creation is aware. What Allah has taught His Angels and His Messengers will be done, for He does not belie Himself, His Angels or His Messengers. It is through His Hidden Knowledge that He expedites or delays what He wills, removes what He wills, and asserts what He wishes to assert. Sulayman told al-Ma`mun, “O Commander of the Faithful! Allah willing, from this day on I will not refute or deny the doctrine of appearance.” Al-Ma`mun said: ”O Sulayman! Ask Abu al-Hasan whatever you wish. Just listen carefully and be fair.” Sulayman said: “O my Mater! May I question you?” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Ask whatever you wish.” Sulayman said, “What is your view about someone who considers the Divine Will to be a name or an attribute like the `Ever-Living,’ the `All-Hearing,’ the `All-Seeing,’ and the `Omnipotent’?” Al-Rida (AS) replied, You claim that things have emerged and become different because He so willed and intended. However, you do not say that things have emerged and become different, because He is All-Hearing and All-Seeing. This is a proof that they (i.e. Will and Intent) are not similar to attributes such as the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing, and the Omnipotent. Sulayman said: “He has always been an Intender.” The Imam (AS) answered him, “O Sulayman! Is His Intent something other than Him?” He replied, “Yes.” The Imam (A) said: “Then you have proved that there has always been something alongwith Him forever.” Sulayman said: “No. I have not.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Has intent emerged?” Sulayman said: “No. It has not emerged.” Then al-Ma`mun shouted at him and said: “O Sulayman! Are you showing obstinacy, and giving vague answers to such a person as him. You must be fair. Do not you see that you are surrounded by intellectuals?” Then he said: “O Abu al-Hasan! Continue your speech, since he is the theologian of Khurasan.” So the Imam (AS) repeated his question, “O Sulayman! Has it (the intent) emerged? For verily, if a thing is not sempiternal, then it has emerged, and if it has not emerged, then it is sempiternal.” Sulayman said: “His Intent is from Him just as His Hearing, His Seeing and His Knowledge are from Him.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “then is He the same as His Intent?” Sulayman answered, “No.” The Imam (AS) said: “Therefore, the intender is not like the hearing and the seeing.” Sulayman said: “surely, He intended Himself, in the same way that He heard Himself, that He was Himself, and that He knew Himself.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “What is the meaning of `He intended Himself? Did He intend to be a Thing? Did He intend to be All-Living, All-Hearing, All-Seeing or All-Powerful?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Did that occur through His Intent?” Sulayman answered, “No.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Then your statement, `He intended to be All-Living, All-Hearing, and All-Seeing’ does not make any sense, since they were not done through His Intent.” Sulayman said: “Yes. That was through His Intent.” Then al-Ma`mun and the people around him, burst into laughter. Al-Rida (AS) laughed as well and said: “Do not be too hard on the theologian from Khurasan. O Sulayman! Do you think that He has altered from state to state, and changed due to it? This is something by which Allah, the Mighty and High, cannot be described.” Sulayman remained silent. Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! May I ask you a question?” The Imam (AS) said: “Tell me about you and your companions: Do you debate with the people on theology according to what you understand and know or according to what you do not understand and do not know?” Sulayman said: “Yes! According to what w understand and know.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “What the people know is that the intender is different from the intent. The intender exists before the intent. The subject is before the object. This disproves y our statement, `The intender and the intended are the same thing.’” Sulayman said: “May I be your ransom! This is not what the people know about and understand.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “I think you have claimed to have knowledge without understanding it. You have said: `Intending is like hearing and seeing’ while this view is not based on knowledge and intellect.” Sulayman could not answer. Then Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Does Allah, the Mighty and High, have knowledge of all that is in Paradise and the Fire?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: “If Allah, the Mighty and High, knows that something will be created in the future, will He actually create it?” Sulayman answered, “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: “If it is done to the extent that nothing else remains, can He add more to it or will He stop doing so?” Sulayman said: “He will add to them.” The Imam (AS) said: “then based on what you have said: He adds to them what He did not know would be crated.” He responded, “May I be your ransom! There is no limit for adding.” The Imam (AS) said: Then in your opinion His Knowledge does not encompass what is in the two (Paradise and Hell)_, since He does not know the limit of that. IF His Knowledge does not encompass what is therein, then He would not know what will be there before it existed. Exalted is Allah, the Elevated and High, from that! Sulayman said: “When I said he does not know about them, it was because they have no limit, and Allah, the Mighty and High, Himself has described them as eternal. Therefore, we do not want to assume an end for them.” Al-Rida (AS) said: His Knowledge of them will not limit them. There are many instances of which He has knowledge, then He adds to them, and does not take away what He has added to them. These are supported by the Word of Allah, the Mighty and High, in His Book: As often as their skins are burned away, We will change them for other skins, so that they may taste the torment. And the Mighty and High says to the inhabitants of Paradise: An unceasing gift. And the Mighty and High said: And abundant fruit, neither failing (be season) not forbidden. Therefore, the High and Mighty knows about these, and does not prevent them from accessing what is added. Will He not replace what the inhabitants of Paradise eat and drink? Sulayman said: “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: “Does the fact that he replaces the consumed food and drink mean that He has stopped granting?” Sulayman said: “No.” The Imam (AS) said: “Therefore, when whatever is consume in Paradise, Allah will replace it with other things. And the inhabitants of paradise will not be prevented from consuming them.” Sulayman said: “Well. He will limit what is added to them, and he will not give them anything else.” Al-Rida (AS) said: Then whatever is in Paradise and hell will end. O Sulayman! This is against eternity and the Book since Allah, the Mighty and High, says: For them therein shall be whatever they desire, and with Us is yet eve more. The Mighty and High says: An unceasing gift. And the Mighty and High says: Not shall they (ever) be asked to leave. And the Mighty and High says: To abide therein forever. And the Mighty and High says: And abundant fruit, nether failing (by season) nor forbidden. Sulayman remained silent. Then al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman, tell me about the intent: Is it an action or is it not?” Sulayman said: “It is an action.” The Imam (AS) said: “therefore, it has emerged, for all actions have emerged.” Sulayman said: “It is not an action.” The Imam (AS) said: “Has there then been something else with Him that is eternal?” Sulayman said: “Intending is the same as originating.” The Imam (AS) said: O Sulayman! This is exactly what you criticized of Dirar and his companions when they said that everything that Allah, the Mighty and High, has created in the heavens, the earth, the oceans or on land, such as dogs, pigs, monkeys, humans or animals, forms part of the Intent of Allah, the Mighty and High, and that Allah’s Intent lives, dies, goes away, eats , drinks, marries, gives birth, oppresses, commits immoral acts, disbelieves, and become a polytheist. You denounce this view, and oppose it. This is its limit. Sulayman said: “The intent is like hearing, seeing, and knowledge.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “You just returned to what you said before. Tell me: are hearing, seeing and knowledge created?” Sulayman said: “No.” Al-Rida (AS) asked, “How do you then refute Him? At times you say that He did not intend. At other times you say that He intended, and that His Intent is not His Action?” Sulayman said: “Surely, that is like saying, He sometimes knows, and sometimes does not know!” Al-Rida (AS) said: That is not the same, for negating the known is not like negating knowledge. However, negating the intended is negating the intent, for if the thing is not intended, there will be no intent. However, sometimes there is knowledge, but there may be no known thing. This is like seeing. Man may be able to see, but there may be nothing there for him to see. Likewise, there may be knowledge, while there is nothing to be known. Sulayman said: “the intent is created.” The Imam (AS) said: “Therefore, it has emerged, and is not like hearing and seeing, for hearing and seeing are not created, and the intent is created.” Sulayman said: “The Intent is one of His Eternal Attributes.” The Imam (AS) answered, “Therefore, man must be eternal, for his attribute is eternal.” Sulayman said: “No, because He has not carried out of the intent.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Khurasani! How often you make mistakes! Are things not made according to His Intent and His Words?” Sulayman said: “No.” The Imam (AS) said: If things are not made according to His Intent or Will, nor His Command or His Practice, then how are they made? Exalted is Allah from that!” Sulayman could not respond. Then al-Rida (AS) asked, “Will you not tell me about the Word of Allah, the Mighty and High: When We intend to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to those of its people who lead easy lives (to obey Us), and yet they transgress in it. By this `We intend’ He means that He emerges the intent?” Sulayman said to him, “Yes.” The Imam (AS) replied to him, “If He crates the intent, then your statement that `the intent is He Himself or is a part of Him is futile, for it is not possible that He emerged Himself as His State never changes. Exalted is Allah from that!” Sulayman asked, “Does He not mean by that that He caused the intent to emerge?” The Imam (AS) asked, “What would He man by that?” Sulayman said: “He means doing something.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Woe unto you! How many times have you repeated this issue? I have told you that the intent is emerged, since the action of a thing is emerged.” Sulayman said: “Then this has no meaning.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Do you then think that He describes Himself with intent which has no meaning? If the intent has no eternal or emerged meaning, then that will nullify your statement, `Allah has always been the Intender.” Sulayman said: “I meant to say that the intent is one of the Eternal Actions of Allah.” The Imam (AS) said; “Do you know the eternal cannot be created or emerged and eternal simultaneously?” Sulayman could not answer. Al-Rida (AS) continued, “Never mind! Complete your questions.” Sulayman said: “Did you say that intent is one of His Attributes?” Al-Rida (AS) said; “How many times will you repeat that the intent is one of His Attributes. Are His Attributes emerged or are they eternal?” Sulayman said: “they are emerged.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Allah is the Greatest! You are telling me that the intent in emerged, even though it is one of His Eternal Attributes. Therefore, He has not intended anything!” The Imam (AS) added, Whatever is eternal is not created.” Sulayman said: “Things are not the same as the intent, and He did not intend anything.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Are you suggesting that He created what He did not intend to create? This is an attribute of someone who does not know what he is doing. Exalted is Allah from that!” Sulayman said: “O my Master! I have already informed you that the intent is like hearing, seeing and knowing.” Al-Ma`mun said: “O Sulayman! Woe unto you! How often have you erred, and how often have you repeated yourself! Cease and address another issue since you seem unable to provide a proper answer.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Commander of the Faithful! Leave him alone! Do not interrupt his questions, since then he will regard it as an argument (against me). O Sulayman! Speak.” Sulayman said: “I have already informed you that the intent is like hearing, seeing and knowing.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Never mind! Tell me whether the intent has one meaning or several meanings.” Sulayman said: “It has one meaning.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Is the meaning of all the intents then the same?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: If its meanings are the same, then it must be that the intent to stand up is the same as the intent to sit down, or that the intent to live is the same as the intent to die. If His Intent is all one thing, then none of His Desires will take precedence over any others. None will be any different from any others. They will all be one thing. Sulayman replied, “Surely, the meanings are different.” The Imam (AS) said: “Then, tell me about the Intender. Is it the same as the intent or is it something else?” Sulayman said: “Yes. It is the same as the intent.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Then according to you the intender is something else, since it is the same as the intent.” Sulayman said: “O my Master! The intent is not the same as the intender.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Then the intent is emerged. Otherwise, it must be that something else existed along with Him. Understand this well, and continue on with your questions.” Sulayman said: “The intent is one of His Names.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Did He give Himself that name?” Sulayman replied, “No, He did not give Himself that name.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Therefore, you have not right to give Him a name which He did not give to Himself?” Sulayman said: “But He has described Himself as the Intender.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “the fact that He has described Himself as the Intender does not mean that He wanted to inform us that He is the Intent, or that the Intent is one of His Names.” Sulayman said: “that is because His Intent is the same as His Knowledge.” AlRida (AS) said: “O ignorant man! If He knows something, does that not mean that He has intended it?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” The Imam (AS) asked, “However, if He does not intent something, does that mean that He does not know it?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: What is your source for that statement? What proof do you have that His Intent is the same as His Knowledge? He may know something, but never intent it. This is supported by His Word the Mighty and High: If We wished, We would certainly take away that which We revealed to you. He knows how to take it away, but He never will. Sulayman said: “That is because He has finished administering the affairs of creation, and will not add anything to what He has destined.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “this is what the Jews say. Then how has the Mighty and High said: Call unto Me; I will answer you. Sulayman said: “He means that He has the power to do so.” The Imam (AS) said: Does He make a promise that He will not fulfill? And if so, then why has He said that He adds to creation whatever He wills. And the Mighty and High said: Allah effaces (of it) whatever He pleases, and confirms (what He wi9lls); with Him is the mother of the Book. Has He finished administering the affairs of creation?” Sulayman could not answer. Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Does He know that a human being will come into existence, while He does not intend to create a human being ever again? Can a person die today, while He does not intend for him to die today?” Sulayman said: “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) asked, “Does He know what He intends exists? And does He know that what He has not intended does not exist?” Sulayman said: “He knows that both of them exist.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Therefore, He knows that man is simultaneously alive and dead, is standing and sitting, is blind and seeing. This is impossible.” Sulayman said: “May I be your ransom! He knows that one of them will exist.” The Imam (AS) said: “Do not worry. Which one will exist? The one which He intended or the one which He did not intended?” Sulayman said: “The one He intended will exist!” Al-Rida (AS), al-Ma`mun, and the scholars started to laugh. Al-Rida (AS) said: You have erred and strayed from your initial argument that `He knows that some people will die today, while He has not intended to make them die today, and that He creates creatures, while He does not intend to created them.’ If you hold that knowledge does not apply to what He has not intended, then He alone know what He has intended. Sulayman said; “My statement is that the intent is neither Him nor something other than Him!” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O ignorant man! If you say that He is separate from His Intent, then you are saying that His Intent is something other than Him. If you say that He is not separate from His Intent, then you have regarded His Intent equal to Him.” Sulayman asked, “Does He know hoe He creates things?” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Yes.” Sulaymand said: “surely this establishes something.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “what you have said is impossible because a man may know how to build a wall without building a wall; a man may know how to sew without sewing anything; or a man may know how t do something well without making it. Then al-Rida (AS) added, “O Sulayman! Does He know that He is One without anything with Him?” Sulayman replied, “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “Does this establish something?” Sulayman said: “He does not know that He is One without anything with Him.” Al-Rida (AS) asked, “Do you know that?” Sulayman replied, “Yes.” Al-Rida (AS) said: “O Sulayman! Therefore, you are more knowledgeable than Him!” Sulayman said: “This is impossible.” The Imam (AS) said: “Is it impossible in your view that He is One without anything with Him, that He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing, All-Wise, All-Knowing, and All-Powerful?” He replied, “Yes.” The Imam (AS) said: Then how did Allah, the Mighty and High, inform that He is One, Ever-Living, AllHearing, All-Seeing, All-Knowing, All-Aware, if He did not know that? This rejects and belies what He has said. Exalted is Allah from that!” Then Al-Rida (AS) asked him, “How does He intend to make something He does not know how to make? If a creator does not know how to create something before he creates it, then he is perplexed. Exalted is Allah from that! Sulayman said: “Intent is the same as Omnipotence.” Al-Rida (AS) said: He, the Mighty and High, has power over what He does not intend. There is no escape from that for He, the Blessed and Exalted, said: If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent by inspiration. If intent is the same as omnipotence, He had intend to take it away for His Omnipotence. Sulayman remained silent. At this time Al-Ma`mun said: “O Sulayman! This is the most learned of the Hashimites!” Then the people dispersed. The Compiler of this book says: Al-Ma`mun was bringing together theologians of various schools of Islam and other religions who had deviated from the Straight Path, in an attempt to embarrass al-Rida and defeat him in debate. This was motivated by al-Ma`mun’s jealousy of him, and due to the stature that al-Rida`s (AS) knowledge gave him. However, all those who debated with him (AS) ended up acknowledging his nobility, and were convinced by the proofs presented by the Imam (AS). This was because Allah, Exalted by His Remembrance, honored His Word, accomplished His Light and assisted His Proof. This is what the Blessed and Exalted has promised in His Book: Verily, We help Our messengers and those who believe in the life of this world, by `those who believe,’ He mean the Immaculate Imams (AS), their followers, those who recognize them, and those who acquire knowledge from them. He assists them with proofs against their rivals for as long as they are in this world. He will treat them likewise in the Hereafter. Verily, Allah does not act against His Promise.